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Interview with Abigail Cloud: Preparing for Winter Wheat No. 21

Image of snow on wheat in the forest. This is promotional material for Winter Wheat writing festival.

by Carolyn Hogg

Abigail Cloud and Haley Souders were interviewed on October 30th, 2024. This interview took place almost 1.5 months after the first interview with Souders and Cloud. Abigail Cloud is the Editor-in-Chief of MAR, and Haley Souders is serving as the Winter Wheat Coordinator this year. During this interview, we discussed preparing for the festival and advice for attendees. Winter Wheat 2024 starts tomorrow Thursday, November 7^th. We hope to see you there!

Registration for Winter Wheat 2024 is still open. You can register here: https://casit.bgsu.edu/winterwheat/2024-registration/

About Winter Wheat:

Winter Wheat, created in 2001, is a festival celebrating writers and readers, produced by Mid-American Review and hosted on the campus of Bowling Green State University. In workshops, students, faculty, and guests from the Bowling Green community and beyond come to learn, discuss, read, and most importantly write. Through “keynote” readings, special guest authors read their work, sign books, and talk with Winter Wheat participants. Winter Wheat creates the ideal environment for graduate and undergraduate students, faculty and staff, community writers, and those from other states to mingle and create new work, effectively planting the seeds of new writings for future harvest. There is no fee to attend Winter Wheat. The festival is sponsored by MAR, the BGSU Ethnic and Cultural Arts Program, the Creative Writing Program at BGSU, Prairie Margins, the Graduate Writers Club, the Creative Writing Alumni Fund, and donations from attendees. The festival would not be possible without donors! Donations for Winter Wheat and MAR can be made online, or through checks made out to BGSU Foundation, with Mid-American Review in the Memo line. Donations may also be made onsite, with cash, check, or credit card. Thank you for your support. Now, please see the interview below.

Interviewer:

What advice would you give a first-time attendee for the Winter Wheat writing festival?

Haley Souders:

Last year was the first writing conference of any kind that I’d been to. I remember when I went to AWP later, I was really overwhelmed, but I think since Winter Wheat is only two days, I didn’t feel as overwhelmed. It’s good to plan one workshop period where you don’t go to any sessions and just take a break for your mind. I remember after some of the workshops I just wanted to sit down and write afterwards because it’s a very fun environment to be in where everyone is talking about writing. You get to write in the workshop, and it just makes you want to write more.

Abigail Cloud:

That’s true. You’ve got to have a good notebook, a couple pens & some pencils. When you’re thinking about coming for the first time and wondering what it’s going to be like, we don’t know either. We know to some extent, but it’s a little different every year. We don’t know who all is going to show up. It’s never really chaotic (I need some wood to knock on), but it’s flurried at some points and then super quiet at other times. So it’s good to be ready for that ebb and flow of traffic and flip traffic. And, understanding your role in it is as a creator. We’re in charge of the festival as staff members of Mid-American Review, but we’re also creators, and we need to take advantage of that. And that’s the same thing with AWP. You never do get a chance to settle down at AWP, not really. At Winter Wheat, you have the opportunity to talk to presenters. We do our own book fair table where our presenters can bring their own books and we sell their books for them. So you can actually meet those people onsite. And it’s a nice opportunity to support authors directly because we’re not ordering the books from the presses or through a bookstore; they’re bringing the books, so that money goes directly back to them. That’s a great way to support them and also to have an immediate reminder of the types of things that you were working on in their workshop.

Interviewer:

You mentioned every year being a little different. What’s new this year?

Abigail Cloud:

DnD! So we had Dungeons and Dragons a few years ago–an organization called Tales of Initiative did some one-shots and it was really fun. There were a whole bunch of people who were interested in learning about DnD. So this year we’re doing a little workshop ahead of time using Dungeons and Dragons character sheets to talk about characters, the brainstorming that goes into storytelling, and how that practice can help you write your own fiction. We’re doing the one-shots again, and we’ll have an experienced table and a beginner’s table so people can learn how to play. People can also spectate if they so choose. A couple people two years ago just wanted to spectate, which I thought was amazing because I like doing that too, just doing some work while people are joyfully coming up with all manner of magical excitement. So it’s a fun little thing that embraces the ability to tell a story on the spot well as collaboratively. Also, Jennifer Pullen is coming for the Saturday keynote reading/craft talk, and she’s also giving a workshop on fantasy fiction. And since we don’t have fantasy fiction here as a class, this will be a good opportunity for students to embrace that side of writing. We certainly have many students who are writing fantasy fiction and we want to give them the opportunity to learn and grow. Also, this year our Saturday night open mic is at Juniper downtown. We’ve had a couple different locations over the years and Juniper happened to be available this year. So I’m greatly looking forward to fair fries.

Interviewer:

Are there any other workshops or readings that you’re especially excited about?

Abigail Cloud:

I typically do not get to go to stuff. I’ll make Haley go to stuff. It’s so easy to get distracted by the business side of things and everything else that’s going on constantly, people with questions, and so on. But as much as possible, it’s important for us to also show up and to be there as participants. Haley, which ones are you excited about?

Haley Souders:

I’m excited for the “Walking with(out) Purpose” workshop with Brad Aaron Modlin. It seems like it’ll be really interesting and different. I think getting that movement in during the workshop will be fun. And Sydney Koeplin’s Workshop, “Dreamweaver,” which is about writing from your dreams. I’m excited for that one because in the past I used to write from an idea I’d get from a dream but I don’t think I’ve really done that much recently. So I’m curious to see if going there will start that back up again for me.

Abigail Cloud:

We also have a couple specific workshops that are about finding your own voice and your own craft. Sophfronia Scott is doing one called, “Almost Straight to the Heart,” on the self-discovery process, using self-discovery as a way to unpack ideas and thoughts. And Naomi North, who is an alum, is doing one called “You Can Tell Me Anything” about finding your own authentic writing voice. They’re both framed almost in terms of an adventure (just as the walking one is), that challenge of digging into your internal self. We also have a couple that are based on family history or using history in your own writing. We see this sometimes in trends, a trend toward wanting to find authenticity and wanting to uncover memories and use them regardless of genre, not just in creative non-fiction or memoir, going deeper into that and seeing what it can spark. So that’s great and it’s feeling very organic in that way.

Interviewer:

I think I’m going to Jessica Manack’s “Writing Your Family Tree” and Naomi North’s workshop, so I’m really excited for those.

Abigail Cloud:

It might feel a little bit like we’re on a retreat. It just sort of has that vibe right now, and I’m not mad about it. I love that.

Interviewer:

Shifting over a little bit, do you have any advice for starting up a regional conference like Winter Wheat?

Abigail Cloud:

When you’re dealing with a festival or conference that’s part of a university, your rules are so much different than when you’re doing it yourself, when you’re doing it independently or as part of an organization that is non-university. You have rules at a university but you also have resources. Technology for instance–it’s in the classrooms already. We have the educational buildings available. If we need it, there’s catering. If we need tech services, there’s tech services. So all of that is built in but there’s also the need to follow policies. So just little bits and pieces like that. And being aware of those types of things. I think the main thing that most people face is just getting people to go, getting people interested, using social media and other forms effectively to build up your base. We have a base that’s been built up over twenty years of people, of past participants and contacts. We’re constantly updating the contact list, adding more ideas, things like that. But as an independent organization, getting all of that work done, in addition to all the infrastructure, there’s just extra to do. So, I think it’s good to know whether you want to do it as part of a joint project with a university or an organization, or if it’s something you’re going alone. And then figuring out who your base is going to be. Especially because we’re not out here giving each other our participants list, which I know is a common business thing, but it’s not something that we do. I’m also very stingy with subscriber lists. I’m not into just making those available to people. So I think having some idea of costs and some idea of your base is kind of your go-to, but also just deciding on your vibe. They’re all different. AWP has a very AWP vibe. I don’t even know how to explain it. It’s more scholarly, less craft. There is some focus craft but it’s more about writing than doing the writing, at least on the spot. We’re about doing the writing on the spot. I also think it’s important to think about what you need in your area. What is your area missing? That’s not easy to do sometimes. You really have to be plugged in with the community in order to know what’s missing and what people want. It’s good to do that ahead of time and that also helps if you then go for grants. Arts council grants want to know what your goals are and who your constituents are and what those people have said and what they’re interested in. Having feedback and community involvement increases your panel score generally, so that’s good to utilize.

Interviewer:

Sounds like there’s a lot of networking going on. And a lot of moving parts.

Abigail Cloud:

So much networking and a lot of moving parts. And there’s planning that you can do ahead, but you also just have to let things happen in their own time. I have trouble with that sometimes but Winter Wheat has helped teach me not to over-manage. It’s going to happen regardless. It’s happening. We have the things done. Haley’s been working so hard and getting the word out. People are registered. So I just need to not flip out about it all the time. And that’s probably my best advice for someone starting a writing conference. Get some help you trust and then don’t flip out.

Interviewer:

Haley, any big lessons from doing the Winter Wheat assistantship this semester?

Haley Souders:

I think the biggest thing I’ve learned is the importance of having a spreadsheet. I feel like there are so many things to keep track of for something like this and with me doing it for the first time, it would be really easy for me to get overwhelmed. But because of the way that everything has been organized where we have the list of things that need to get done and we have specific spreadsheets for the book fair and for workshops, there was never a moment where I wasn’t sure what I needed to do or where something was, or where to find information about anything. It was very well organized by Abby.

Abigail Cloud:

Well, by legions of past Winter Wheat people. This stuff grows up over time and we change the duties and the plans list every year. It has to change as new things come up or as policies change, as venues change, and whatnot. But it does at least give you a completion timeline and helps you understand what the direct lineup is. Here we are in one to two weeks before and we’re seeing the list gradually getting italicized as things get done. Even looking at it, I’m just like, ‘yep, okay, got some things that we need to do.’ This list gets longer and longer the closer we get, but again, it’s coming and it’s time. It’s happening as it needs to happen.

Interviewer:

How do you expect or hope Winter Wheat to evolve over the next few years?

Abigail Cloud:

I always like to hear from our participants about what they want even though getting feedback is really difficult. It’s hard to get people to fill out the feedback forms. I think hearing those ideas and seeing how our student population looks and what they’re interested in has always been a guiding force. And understanding that part of our job with a festival is to bring something to the community that it doesn’t already have. So whatever we don’t have, that’s what we do. For instance, we have Jessica Zinz who does collage poetry. She and Amanda McGuire Rzicznek do graphic novels and comics and they’ve worked on the word and image combination, which is why we now have the minor here at the University that students can do. They’ve really brought that to the forefront. That’s just not a thing that we had 10 years ago. So looking ahead, testing out new things like the D&D event, and knowing what our participants are interested in. It’s hard to predict where the writing world’s going to go but we do know that there are things that people are interested in more than they used to be, and we can bring those things to Winter Wheat. Bringing in different types of writers for the keynote is a great one that helps us keep pace with that. I’m also curious to know if we’re going to continue doing the hybrid sessions and how that might evolve. We do have some sessions on Zoom so people can participate and present from all over. So if that’s going to remain popular, we’ll try to do more with it. When we were all online the one year, I didn’t love it because part of Winter Wheat is the on-site community. But having some things hybridized still brings in the wider community. And being able to bring back people who have been here like alums and past participants is still important. I just didn’t like how it worked out with the open mics and receptions. Nobody really loves those online. So, finding new ways to make the online component work I think is going to be a challenge continuing forward.

Interviewer:

What about you, Haley? Any thoughts about the future of Winter Wheat?

Haley Souders:

I hope that I’m able to keep going in person and can see future Winter Wheats. I’ll definitely keep trying to attend online wherever I am, but I hope I can still make the trip back sometimes.

Abigail Cloud:

That’s one of our favorite things, having alums back. And seeing how their writing has changed and grown, and giving them the opportunities for further professional development and continuing that education. It’s nice to keep building those relationships and keep those people close.

Interviewer:

What are you most proud of about Winter Wheat and/or your involvement in it?

Haley Souders:

This is a weird thing to be proud of, but the social media part of it. I’m not a big social media person, and I feel like that is one skill I’ve directly learned from this job. I don’t know if I want to do marketing or social media things in the future, but it’s now a skill that I possess and can say that I have done and know how to do.

Abigail Cloud:

We have concrete examples to add to your portfolio. I’ve been pushing that really hard on my students lately, having a portfolio of the work we’ve done. Because when you’re applying for jobs or further schooling, you have that already there. You can already point to it and say, ‘this is a thing that I have achieved.’

Haley Souders:

Also, anytime I’ve directly answered an email from someone and I’ve gotten to see the excitement from people who are getting to attend, especially if it’s someone who is not currently affiliated with Bowling Green in any way. It’s just exciting to see how far Winter Wheat can reach.

Abigail Cloud:

Yeah, and it’s always nice when you see new people, new faces. As I’m looking at the registrations coming in, there are a lot of familiar names on there, which I love, but I also love seeing the new folks, ones who have identified that they haven’t attended before. And then sometimes we have alums and friends teaching elsewhere and they bring their students, which I love. I think having something that people feel comfortable coming back to is one of the things that I feel most proud of. It’s a comfortable environment. There’s a lot of camaraderie, there’s a lot of face-to-face conversation. One of the things we’re going to do this year is bring a large collection of our out-of-date literary journals and let people go through them and talk about submission strategies. And that’s how we’re going to start. We’re inviting people into the mess of submitting work right away, giving each other advice and so on. And I hope that that’ll spark conversation. Let’s face it–writers, we don’t always want to be perceived or out there talking to people. It’s not really what we do. It’s kind of literally the opposite of what we do. But Winter Wheat is our opportunity to be in a safe environment to do those things, to talk to people, to be perceived, and to make something new. That’s the spirit in which Winter Wheat was created, and continuing in that vein and representing, in a larger aspect, the spirit of Mid-American Review, is really important to me. I feel really good about that. And also my registration spreadsheet.

Interviewer:

If you had to describe Winter Wheat using only food metaphors, how would you describe it?

Abigail Cloud:

Mashed potatoes. I’m a potato person. I like potatoes, potatoes are part of my regular diet. They are my safe food. I find them comforting. I always want them. I’m always excited about them and you can do so many cool things with them.

Haley Souders:

My first thought was a bowl of Lucky Charms.

Interviewer:

Are you the kind of person who eats the charms mixed in, or who saves the charms for last?

Haley Souders:

I save the charms for last and have a bowl of marshmallows.

Abigail Cloud:

Lucky Charms is such a great answer because if you eat them straight from the box like I do, you can’t really see ahead of time what you’re about to consume–you just know it’s going to be delicious.

Haley Souders:

Thank you for validating my metaphor.

Interviewer:

If you could invite one of your favorite authors, dead or alive, to Winter Wheat, who would you choose and what do you think they’d be most excited about?

Haley Souders:

That’s so tough. My first thought is Charles Yu just because I was talking to Jane Wageman (MAR’s Managing Editor for 2024-2025) when we went to package everything to ship about how whenever I recognized a writer’s name, I was so excited and I was like, ‘oh my gosh, I’m touching this person’s mail right now.’ One of those people was Charles Yu. I don’t know what he would get most from it though.

Abigail Cloud:

We’ve published his story “Class Three Superhero” in Mid-American Review. He would come. If we could afford him we’d bring him. As for what he’d get from it, he would mostly receive our adoring eyeballs because we love him so much. I was going to say Brenda Hillman because she’s always my answer, but Dana Levin would be super great here. She is one of my poetry fairy godmothers. I love her enthusiasm and her dig-in mentality. I feel like she would be a really good reader but I also think she would in turn enjoy the generative workshops. I think she would like to create.

Interviewer:

Awesome. So we’ve covered a lot of ground. Anything else you’d like to add before we wrap up?

Abigail Cloud:

Everyone should come to Winter Wheat. It happens every year–put it in your calendar. It’s such a good opportunity because during the year we tend to get distracted from our writing. We’re doing all these other things, we’re wearing many different hats, and it’s so nice to be able to say, ‘this weekend, I’m going to write and that’s it. I’m going be with my own kind. I’m going to be with my people.’

Haley Souders:

Yeah, I’ll just just a second that. I feel like anytime I’m in a place where everyone is really interested in writing and we’re also talking about writing, it always makes me so much more excited to write than I am when it’s just me and my mind thinking about how I haven’t been writing.

Abigail Cloud:

Yes. Winter Wheat opens up so many doors.

MAR Spooktacular 2024: “After Bone Town”

Picture of the game board for the board game "After Bone Town" inspired by Angie Macri's poem "Bone Town"

Photo Caption: Picture of the board game which is available for download below.

Happy Halloween, MAR Family!

What Is “After Bone Town”?

To celebrate Halloween this year, MAR spotlighted a past contributor by gamifying their piece, originally published in MAR’s print issue. In this captivating board game, players take on the roles of characters living in “Bone Town.” “After Bone Town” is a board game inspired by Angie Macri’s poem “Bone Town,” first published in MAR Volume 42.1.

How to Play

Setup: Download and print the game board, instructions, and bone pieces from this blog post. We recommend printing the game board on 11″ by 17″ paper or across two sheets of paper. Cut out the bone pieces and window card. Before gameplay, place the bone pieces and window card in any empty spaces on the game board. Only one bone piece should be placed per empty space. The window card will also be placed on an empty space alone.
Components: Players will need 1 die, character tokens, bone pieces, window card, and game board. Players will need to gather tokens or charms to represent each character.
Winning: The first character to collect their two required bone pieces and the window card will be the winner.

After Bone Town Instructions Download

Bone Pieces Download

Bone Town Board (1)-compressed Download

Check out Angie Macri’s poem “Bone Town” below.

001-002Macri (2)Download

Why We Chose It: “The Unbearable” by Brianna Barnes No. 11

American suburbs from a drone or bird's eye view

By Jane Wageman

Photo Caption: “Drone view of similar houses, driveways, and yards in the Utah suburbs.” by Blake Wheeler, Public Domain, Wikimedia Commons.

Mid-American Review fiction staff selected “The Unbearable” by Brianna Barnes for publication in Volume XLIII, Number 1, forthcoming.

Life has become increasingly unbearable for Judy, the protagonist of Brianna Barnes’ story—but reading about her existential crisis is anything but.

Our staff loved the psychological complexity of Judy’s character, whose actions are often nonsensical—and yet make perfect sense within the framework of her own skewed logic.

Judy is on a first-name basis with the agents at Poison Control, which she regularly calls while drunk to inquire about the effects of consuming certain toxins. She trolls the website FriendlyNeighborhood.com, posting under the pseudonym Carl Rogers and trying to get a rise out of the neighbors whom she lives alongside but rarely speaks to. She acts with certainty—even as she continually questions her relation to the world around her.

The story begins in the aftermath of a forest fire, which has forced a bear into the surrounding suburbs. Judy, encountering her neighbors’ comments about this online, finds herself intentionally stoking their concerns about the animal. As she reacts to the bear-sightings, the story delves into her thoughts on consciousness and her place in an indifferent world. Walking through the trees’ charred remains in the opening scene, Judy notes: “The fact that. . . she was fully surrounded by a resplendent and unrepeatable beauty did not mean she was being loved by the forest or by nature or by some capital ‘G’ God; she was just as unloved as ever within a beauty which preceded her and did not need her, a wilderness, after all.”

“The Unbearable” has a lonely, haunting quality in such scenes—but they are set alongside moments of sharp, critical humor that left many of us laughing to ourselves as we read. Ironic and funny portrayals of suburbia are sprinkled throughout the story: the particular smells and patrons of an organic grocery store, conversations between neighbors about recycling protocols in an online forum, and a description of Judy’s home, Pleasant Meadows, as “a suburb with profound rural pretenses, hyperbolic nature street names, and paranoid inhabitants.”

As the story follows Judy’s growing sense of her own “nonsubjecthood,” it builds to an ending that feels both surprising and inevitable—one that you certainly won’t forget.

Craft Corner: Art in Conversation with Itself: On Bob Dylan, T.C. Cannon and Joy Harjo No. 6

By Nathan Fako

Photo Caption: All the Tired Horses in the Sun by T. C. Cannon (painted between 1971-1972)

two horses (one red, one blue) are standing on a green prairie under a n abstract yellow background with white blobs which mimics a very bright sky with clouds

T. C. Cannon Fair Use

In 1970, Bob Dylan released Self Portrait, his tenth studio album. It was met with poor reviews and disdain from fans, the long history of which is well-documented online. Curiously, Dylan made a choice that alienated fans, whether intentional or not. The opening track, “All the Tired Horses,” does not feature vocals from Dylan at all. Where had the dynamo gone? Where was the “Rolling Stone,” the Dylan of “Corrina, Corrina,” the young man “Blowin’ in the Wind?” What did he mean, foregrounding a voice, a choir of voices, that didn’t belong to him?

Around the time Dylan’s song was released, a young Kiowa-Caddo man named Tommy Cannon–popularly known as T.C. Cannon–returned from the Vietnam War and painted two horses under an ochre sky. One red horse, one blue. He named the piece All the Tired Horses in the Sun. Cannon tragically died eight years later, just a few months before his big opening show at the Aberbach Gallery in New York. While his life was short, Cannon was a prolific artist, known as both a painter and a poet. Was his painting a response to Dylan’s song? Inspired by it, surely, but carrying the message forward somehow? Transforming it?

Finally, in 2018, a year before being named United States Poet Laureate, Joy Harjo was commissioned to write a piece for a book about Cannon. She wrote “All the Tired Horses in the Sun.” The piece has to do with Harjo’s Mvskoke identity and issues faced by Indigenous communities; perhaps, the piece has something to do with not just Cannon’s painting, but Dylan’s as well.

Artists respond to the world around them; the world is filled with artists. How do we make sense of intertextual connections like those presented here? I don’t have an answer. We engage with art, think about it, are moved by it, and in some cases, make art in response. We keep our minds open. One avenue of entry that often proves to be interesting, if even as basic exploration, is the use of one work to frame another work. This is sometimes called a lens. So let’s use the Harjo poem as a lens for viewing the Cannon painting, and then listening to the Dylan song.

First: Harjo.

The poem begins with “Forever.” Harjo creates a landscape with anaphora and end-stopped lines. Readers have the sense of a weary propulsion. A tired procession of family, “my cousin. Auntie. Uncle. / Another cousin.” The poem opens in the center, and the subject is complexified. Up to this point, we are given context through the title, made to think of family members like horses in the sun, and then: “Vending machines and pop. / Chips, candy, and not enough clean water.” So we are handed food insecurity. Harjo’s choices are very intentional. The harshness of the end-stopped lines, the word choices having to do with junk food, and the absence of enough clean water paint a picture of a landscape that is difficult; it is hot, dry, “waiting and tired.” The final line of the poem is a call to action: “Go water the horses.” We the readers have the ability to positively impact our communities.

Applied to the Cannon painting, Harjo’s poem provides the figures with further meaning. The two animal shapes are so close to one another that they touch. The blue from the horse’s coat is echoed in the lighter-toned saddle of the red horse. Their heads are down, likely to indicate that they are grazing. This is a family, pressed down under the weight of a sky that takes up two-thirds of the canvas, a hot ochre with marshmallow clouds. The saddles indicate these are working animals. It wouldn’t be a stretch to link a working horse conceptually to the grim reality of Indigenous dispossession in our American history. So we have the sense of hot work, with one’s family, in an open landscape with no space for shelter.

To my eye, the Dylan song–stay with me, I know it’s odd to go backward–ties the three works together. Making a lens of the poem makes the song quite simple, and in my opinion, poignant. There are only two lines of lyric in the song:

“All the tired horses in the sun, / how’m I supposed to get any ridin’ done? Hmm.”

If we apply the connotative landscape we have built by working backward, we have a picture of the horses in our minds. They are family members, moving through life under a hot sun, without enough clean water. Our families are working, the sun can be oppressive, and there is not enough. There is never enough. How can an artist–existing in a political landscape like the one inhabited by Dylan and Cannon in the 70s, the one Harjo has inhabited throughout her long career–rationalize the act of making art? How do you unpack the choice to be creative when there are so many practical problems in the world that need fixing? And how do you grapple with becoming a symbol–as Dylan was–for something you may not want to stand for?

Simple: you focus on what you have to. You make the art. There’s no sense in hand-wringing.

You go water the horses.

Interview with Abigail Cloud: Preparing for Winter Wheat No. 20

Interviewed by Serenity Dieufaite

Abigail Cloud and Haley Souders were interviewed on September 11th, 2024. This interview took place in East Hall at Bowling Green State University. Abigail Cloud is the Editor-in-Chief of MAR, and Haley Souders is serving as the Winter Wheat Coordinator this year.

During this interview, we discussed preparing for Winter Wheat 2024. We talked about the festival’s history, favorite memories, and all the work that goes into making Winter Wheat.

Interviewer:

Okay, then. Let’s get started. So my first question is: Where did the idea of Winter Wheat come from? This is my first time here at Bowling Green and it’s my first time being involved in these things. So, I don’t really know a lot of the background of this event.

Abigail Cloud:

Winter Wheat started in 2001. It was actually my first year here as a grad student back then … The idea was to create a community-based writing event because there weren’t any around here. You know we have the ginormous AWP conference. We have other sort of regional conferences but there wasn’t any variety in like smaller festivals that were not gonna cost people a lot to go to. So the idea was to create something that had readings, that had sort of camaraderie among writers, which is what Mid-American Review is all about. And then also to generate new work beacuse a lot of conferences don’t involve creating new work at all. Like that’s not something that exists at most conferences and festivals so that was really the focus from the start. And that’s why the name ultimately became Winter Wheat because we’re planting the seeds for future harvest, essentially. And it speaks to our Midwestern status and everything, but in point of fact the alternate name was Wheat Stalk. So like Woodstock. But ‘stalk,’ like stalk of wheat, and you know that’s, we’re very clever. But it was mainly to create an event that the area was lacking and that didn’t really exist in the landscape anyway.

Interviewer:

Okay. Anything you want to add, Haley Souders?

Haley Souders:

No, Abby knows the history way more than I do so.

Interviewer:

Okay then so I didn’t know you were here when Winter Wheat started.

Abigail Cloud:

Yes.

Interviewer:

You got to watch that process.

Abigail Cloud:

I did. I was very involved in that process as a grad student. Karen Craigo and Michael Czyzniejewski involved all us grad students in the planning and the creating. We were all on sort of micro committees to get things done because it was our first time, too, with that big of an event. And it was still small, but it was, you know, learning the planning at a university. Like learning the offices and people that you need to talk to. And figuring out what the structure was going to be like, you know, getting, getting the guests locked down. All that kind of stuff. So it was, it was pretty detailed, pretty intense.

Interviewer:

Wow.

Abigail Cloud:

Good couple months.

Interviewer:

Okay then. So you had a very extensive history with Winter Wheat. What is one of your favorite Winter Wheat memories?

Abigail Cloud:

(to Haley) Do you have a favorite Winter Wheat memory from last year?

Haley Souders:

I don’t know. The thing I’m just thinking about right now is when me and Caleb were bringing in all the food from your car. I don’t know why that’s sticking in my head. Just like setting up all the snacks and the coffee station. And then Mays (Kuhail, 2023 coordinator) coming in and saying, “Actually you should put the pastries by the coffee.” And it was being, her being really aware of the flow of everything.

Abigail Cloud:

Yeah, yeah. It’s been interesting having that ability of, we have our own sort of coffee corner and coffee and snack corner, which we do now instead of getting catering. And it’s nice because we can have exactly what we want. No more, no less. It just, it does make things really nice.

Haley Souders:

Yeah.

Abigail Cloud:

I think most of my favorite memories from Winter Wheat are from years where I wasn’t in charge. Because I was able to go to workshops. And so, the one that I always use as an example is going to Mary Biddinger’s workshop on Organizing a Poetry Manuscript, a full-length collection. And I went because I had a manuscript and after I came out and I sat down. And I didn’t go to anything else. I sat down with, you know, my list of poems and all my poems. And I reorganized the whole manuscript, or started to, under an entirely different principle that I had gotten while in that workshop. And that is essentially the form in which that book eventually got published. So it changed everything, right on the, right on the spot, which was really incredible.

Interviewer:

So you got to experience what the purpose of Winter Wheat was.

Abigail Cloud:

I did. I did. It fulfilled its goals. And we love Mary anyway. I mean she’s an alum from here too. And is over at Akron and runs the poetry press there. So it was especially neat. It was special to have that from her with whom we’ve already had a connection.

Interviewer:

Okay. Awesome.

Haley Souders:

Yeah, in terms of workshops. I remember there were two people who came in from some other university and they, it was essentially like Hermit flash, I think is what it was.

Abigail Cloud:

Oh yeah. Yeah.

Haley Souders:

Where they were–they would give us two note cards and one was like a weird topic and then one was like a weird format to write on. So some were literally like a concert ticket was the format, or academic essay is I think one that I got. And that one was like a really fun intensive workshop.

Abigail Cloud:

Yeah, getting exposed to new forms and new ways of doing things that other people have tried and that’s always an exciting moment, I think, at Winter Wheat.

Haley Souders:

Yeah.

Interviewer:

Cool. So what does the planning process for this event look like?

Abigail Cloud:

So, we have an extensive to-do list between us. And it is organized essentially by how far ahead of Winter Wheat it is. So it’s kind of monthly and then it becomes every few weeks and so on. And we kind of divide up where we are and the duties for Haley Souders or whoever is in that position are dependent on what that person wants to learn and what they might be good at. But also it’s a lot of that outside communication. And then for me it’s dealing with the university offices. So, you know, working with event planning, emailing parking services, things like that. So, the nice thing is that Winter Wheat has been around long enough that we know what we need to do. Like there aren’t usually big surprises. It’s always possible. But not common. So, we usually are planning far enough in advance that we know who the guests are. We’re calling for proposals and so on. But even that doesn’t happen as far in advance as a lot of conferences because we know what we need. And enough people are repeat Winter Wheat attendees that they also know, they know what to do. So a lot of web mastering and updating and a lot of kind of back end stuff preparing the various spreadsheets that we need. But, but yeah. (to Haley) What has it been looking like for you?

Haley Souders:

Yeah, I mean I think for me it’s at least a little bit less stressful just because you have done this a decent amount of times. And like you were saying with the responsibilities it’s laid out on a sheet, on a Google doc. It’s like you know everything that needs to get done. There’s nothing that’s going to fall through the cracks. So there isn’t anything that I’m having to stress out about it not getting done.

Abigail Cloud:

Yeah. Yeah. We have all the contact lists already made. They need to be updated but they’re already made so you know it’s just stuff that needs to be done. But also has a time already assigned to do it.

Interviewer:

Okay then. How do you organize the workshop schedule?

Abigail Cloud:

I actually changed how we do that.

Interviewer:

Okay.

Abigail Cloud:

Usually, it is the coordinator and I sitting down with slips of paper that have the workshop title, genre, and preferred date on it. Last year, I gave those slips to the (Mid-American Review editorial) class and said here you go everybody. Make a schedule. And I had input and everything but I let everyone else puzzle it out. And figure out what would be the best arrangement. And I had to make changes, of course, but honestly it was kind of interesting to watch that puzzling process.

Haley Souders:

Interesting. I know I haven’t gone through that scheduling yet but one of the things that I have done so far is starting to make a spreadsheet of those different proposals. And what you’re saying with like the date, preferences, and genres.

Abigail Cloud:

Yeah, and there are fewer preferences than there used to be. Like we used to have to ask people for their, whether they wanted the projector and screen in their rooms or not. And now they’re in all the rooms that we’re in so we don’t have to ask about that anymore. We used to have to get a certain number of laptops from the union which was horrible. And then remember all the logins and everything. It was awful.

Interviewer:

Where is Winter Wheat held, by the way?

Abigail Cloud:

Education Building. Yup. Right there. So it’s right close to our parking lot, our preferred parking lot. And so it’s good for accessibility reasons. They also have those rooms often set up with active learning desks. So we can move them around really easily. … But it is nice to have a stable setting. We used to be in the union. It was in the union every year for the longest time but it’s pretty expensive. And we also can only have the university catering if we’re in that building. So I can’t, like, bring the Keurigs and set them up. They won’t let us do that. So, it’s nice to have the Education Building. It could be, there are things that could be better about it. But, you know. And it’s better than having it here in East Hall, which we did the first year. That was, this was where it was. There were only about 40-60 people anyway. So we fit. But, but I don’t want to do that with like 200 people.

Interviewer:

So 200 is what we’re expecting to get this year?

Abigail Cloud:

Anywhere between 200 and 300. And that counts the audience at the Thursday night reading which the Prout students are required to go to. So usually we are tapping out around 300.

Interviewer:

Okay, I noticed there’s going to be a book fair. Can you tell me about the process of getting books, reaching out to writers, literary journals?

Haley Souders:

Yeah, I mean that was part of what I was doing in August. There’s a list of different contacts for different presses and journals that has been used for a while now, I’m guessing.

Abigail Cloud:

Yeah.

Haley Souders:

So I basically reached out to those emails. And there was a pre-used template that Mays and the other Winter Wheat coordinators have used that is kind of just advertising the book fair and asking if they want to be part of it again to fill out a certain form so that we know. I know later on we’ll have to start asking about like logos and marketing materials that they’ll use at the book fair. Yeah.

Abigail Cloud:

We make a good, a logo handout and on the website so that people know who’s going to be there. We also, so it could be journals, could be creative writing programs, could be writer groups, could be presses. And then, we also have a table where we sell the presenters’ books. So not just the guest readers but also anyone who’s presenting a workshop if they have a book we will sell it for them. They bring us copies and we of course make a spreadsheet and everything. How many do we have? How much are we selling them for? And that’s an important part of the book fair too because we don’t pay our presenters. It’s a free festival so we want to at least be able to offer them something.

Interviewer:

How many writers and presenters do you have planned for this year?

Haley Souders:

I think so far in the spreadsheet there’s about 15 people.

Interviewer:

15?

Haley Souders:

15. And then I know that you guys will also be doing workshops. So that’s like 10 more. Unless you pair up.

Abigail Cloud:

It’ll be up to like 30 to 35, I would say.

Interviewer:

Okay.

Abigail Cloud:

Yeah. Yeah. That’s the total that we would normally have. We had been up to like 60 different workshops a couple of years, which was bonkers. We don’t do that. That’s, that was like 10 running at a time.

Interviewer:

Wow.

Abigail Cloud:

Yeah, and that was too many. So having closer, anywhere between 30 and 40 is much more manageable.

Interviewer:

Okay then. What would you say is your favorite part of the process of working on Winter Wheat?

Haley Souders:

So far, I’ve really enjoyed getting to see the proposals before they’re released. And just getting to see everyone’s descriptions of what they want to do. And the workshops that they want to lead especially if it’s more unique and something that I would never have thought of for my own writing.

Interviewer:

Cool.

Abigail Cloud:

My answer is, is strange but it, it’s kind of in keeping with my personality. I really like as registrations are coming in, getting them logged. And seeing what people are going to and getting the counts of who’s signing up for what.

Haley Souders:

Oh yeah.

Abigail Cloud:

Yeah, I have a special spreadsheet setup that does lookups. So all I have to do is change a number and it’ll look up the person who’s registered and then print a schedule of everything they’re registered for. And it’s one of my favorite things. I love this thing. It’s so interesting to have that and to be able. I could even set it up to do merge list or like a mail merge. And to just run down the list, but that’s a little too intensive because I need to be able to check it. But it’s just nice to have been doing something so long that we do have a little bit of automation available. Which seems really strange but it’s true. It’s super true.

Interviewer:

Can you describe a challenge that you’ve had during the preparation process?

Abigail Cloud:

Rooms. Having rooms. So, the last couple of years we’ve really gotten lucky because Veterans Day has fallen on one of the days that we have Winter Wheat. So it, getting enough rooms on a weekday hasn’t been a problem. But this year it is because they’re classes in the Education Building up until a certain time on Friday. So we’re going to have to mess with the schedule a little bit to make sure that we have enough space. I think it’s going to work but it is sort of that type of thing that it’s going to hang over our heads because we can’t solve that problem until we know what workshops we have and when they’re going to be. So it’s kind of on pause, like it has to be on the back burner. And that is not an uncommon problem. But it is an issue that shows up almost every year so it’s solvable. But it is annoying. It is a nuisance, for sure.

Haley Souders:

Yeah, I think that’s probably the biggest issue there is. I know that one thing I ran into when contacting people for the book fair is just like journals going defunct and being on the list still. Which is just kind of sad to see. More so than it being like a problem.

Abigail Cloud:

Yeah. Yeah.

Haley Souders:

Like, oh, I can’t send them an email, and more of like, oh, this is sad that this journal that has probably been pretty important to the community is now not there.

Abigail Cloud:

Yeah. And it’s really kind of in some ways a sign of the times too. It’s just, you know, it’s not unusual to find journals going defunct but fortunately, there are others being created. So we just …

Haley Souders:

Yeah.

Abigail Cloud:

Swap in some information. …

Interviewer:

Is there anyone you’re looking forward to working with during this year’s Winter Wheat?

Abigail Cloud:

I’m stoked to have Jennifer Pullen coming. She teaches at Ohio Northern. And just had a fantasy fiction craft text come out. Craft text, text and anthology. So she’s going to read from her own work and talk a little about that book at the keynote. But then she’s also going to lead a craft workshop on Fantasy fiction. So I’m stoked about that because it’s nice to have sort of something that we don’t offer our students here in the program. We don’t have a fantasy expert. And that’s really what we try to do with that keynote spot, bring in someone doing something different than what we do here. Or someone who has a different perspective or experience. And plus I just, I’ve known her for a long time so I’m just excited that I get to feature her this year. It’s just fun.

Interviewer:

Cool.

Haley Souders:

Yeah. Jessica Dawn Zinz-Cheresnick. She’s doing, I think, a workshop on found images in poetry which seems like it’ll be interesting. I don’t know if I go to workshops or not.

Abigail Cloud:

You do. You do. If we can possibly make it happen. Then you do for sure.

Haley Souders:

Yeah. That seems like it’ll be an interesting one.

Interviewer:

What is it like working with graduate and undergraduate students for Winter Wheat?

Abigail Cloud:

Fun. I think it’s fun.

Haley Souders:

I think you work more with the undergraduates and graduates so far than I have.

Abigail Cloud:

It’s hard to wrangle a lot of people to do, you know to, for the volunteer work thing, which does fall on you eventually.

Haley Souders:

Oh yeah.

Abigail Cloud:

But it can be hard wrangling volunteers. You know what’s hard: It’s getting people to understand that when they’re volunteering for Winter Wheat they might be sitting and doing nothing for a while. And that’s okay because they are still monitoring. Like, your presence is the volunteering, like you’re monitoring a table or, you know, you’re a person who is present and that someone could ask questions of. But when people volunteer a lot of times they get a little sticky about it. Because it’s just like, oh, I really want to do something. Like sometimes sitting is doing something. Or a lot of times I’ll send them to a workshop to fill a space to, you know, be another presence. So it’s always a little bit funny trying to coordinate that. And help them understand what’s expected, which sometimes is nothing.

Interviewer:

Interesting.

Haley Souders:

Yeah, I don’t have anything to add to that.

Abigail Cloud:

Yet.

Haley Souders:

Yet.

Abigail Cloud:

You will. You will though.

Interviewer:

Okay, here’s my final question. Is there anything about preparing for Winter Wheat that we haven’t discussed that you would like to mention?

Abigail Cloud:

I want people to come with an interest in doing something a little bit new. Something that’s a little bit outside what they’ve done before. And be prepared to create on-site, on the spot. It’s nice to go somewhere where you don’t feel like you have to do a lot of studying or research or, you know, prewriting or anything like that before you come. You can just come and be. Be a creator. And give yourself that time to be a creator. I think that’s really important. I also really want people who sign up to come. Sometimes we get a lot of registrants who don’t come then, and you know there are appropriate reasons for something like that happening. But also, sometimes I think people get tired and whatever and you know the, the inertia. The energy requirement to overcome the inertia can be a lot. But most people find it really relaxing and really renewing. And I want people to feel that and be prepared for that.

Interviewer:

Well, thank you both for allowing me to interview you.

Abigail Cloud:

Of course. Thank you.

Interviewer:

And I hope that you have a successful Winter Wheat.

Haley Souders:

Thanks

Abigail Cloud:

Winter Wheat!